Episode 51 - Liz Bachman, Planet Crusader

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,380 Welcome to Uncharted Journeys. 2 00:00:17,380 --> 00:00:19,000 I'm your host, Cathy McKnight. 3 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,360 If you're like me and you've ever sat back and wondered, how did I get here, whether 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,580 literally or figuratively in terms of your career or life in general, then you're in 5 00:00:26,580 --> 00:00:28,520 good company and have come to the right place. 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,520 On Uncharted Journeys, you'll hear from amazing women about their straightened hours, zigzaggy 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,400 or somewhere in between paths to success. 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,840 Today's guest could be said she's a woman of the world, living in 16 different states 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,000 in two countries before her 25th birthday. 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,960 This mobility instilled in her a love of adventure, travel, and a delight of new experiences, 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,880 which is so amazing. 12 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:53,120 Her career journey has been equally diverse, beginning in banking, recruiting, and architecture, 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:58,320 all leading to continued success in the fast-paced and dynamic environment of data centers at 14 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:04,280 Microsoft as a certified PMP and fellow problem solver, a true kindred spirit. 15 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,760 I too am a PMP. 16 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,160 She found her way to compliance through process improvement, finding every compliance issue 17 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,920 and opportunity for improvement by identifying the gaps or causes for the issue. 18 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,200 Her current role as senior compliance manager for supplier non-compliance of the supplier 19 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,920 governance monitoring and enforcement team, my goodness that's a mouthful, allows for 20 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:30,480 the identification of trends and implementation of migrating enterprise strategies. 21 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,080 Her adventurous spirit combined with the belief that it's never too early to start planning 22 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,080 for retirement, today's guest experienced a life change when she was spending time on 23 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:43,880 a sandy beach in the Sea of Cortez in the Baja California Sur in Mexico, her retirement 24 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,360 destination. 25 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,260 I'm already dreaming of retirement. 26 00:01:48,260 --> 00:01:53,180 It was during this time of exploration for retirement location that she found and started 27 00:01:53,180 --> 00:01:58,120 another journey of living plastic free after finding then filling a plastic bag with other 28 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,720 plastics in the ocean while snorkeling. 29 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,440 Five years later, her passion for living plastic free has grown and I definitely am going to 30 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,820 dig into that. 31 00:02:05,820 --> 00:02:10,640 An excellent small talker, which she proved this morning, she enjoys skiing, kayaking, 32 00:02:10,640 --> 00:02:15,320 long walks on the beach with her dogs and discovering new restaurants and speak easy. 33 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:16,320 Welcome Liz Bachman. 34 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:17,320 Hello. 35 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,120 Nice to meet you, Kathy. 36 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,600 So happy to be that you're here. 37 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:25,600 I'm delighted. 38 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:31,480 I don't ever shy away from the opportunity to talk about plastic free. 39 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,960 I think that's part of the key is sharing, sharing lessons learned, sharing tips and 40 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:41,360 tricks because if you don't know, you're not going to be able to leverage a plastic free 41 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:42,360 lifestyle. 42 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:43,360 Absolutely. 43 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:44,360 All right. 44 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,820 So I gave our audience literally the highlights. 45 00:02:48,820 --> 00:02:55,400 Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about, you know, well, your career has been long 46 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:02,760 stand in Microsoft, which is an achievement in itself that is not an easy environment. 47 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,080 So maybe you can tell us a little bit how you got into that space and whatnot and then 48 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:11,040 we'll dig into the four questions and definitely get to the whole plastic free living. 49 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,040 I would love to. 50 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:19,960 I never thought that I'd want to work for a large corporation when I was a kid. 51 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:25,120 I actually made a bet with my neighbor who was one of the Microsoft founders, a million 52 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,720 dollars that I would never work for the Borg. 53 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,480 And sure enough, it's where I ended up. 54 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:46,800 But when I left architecture where I was their international recruiter, I landed at Microsoft 55 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,080 through connections. 56 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:56,320 I found both with moving within Microsoft and every job change I've had along the path, 57 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,280 it's because of somebody I've known or somebody I've connected with. 58 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:10,040 And I found my way to Microsoft through one of those connections and landed in the dynamic, 59 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,120 fast paced, crazy world of data centers. 60 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:20,400 When I started, Microsoft had one active data center built. 61 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:29,360 And it was a real privilege to work in an environment where everything was brand new. 62 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,640 Everything was like a startup. 63 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,360 We were making things from scratch. 64 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:39,640 And the things that I used to do are now being done by teams of hundreds of people as we've 65 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,160 continued to scale. 66 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,920 And I think the real benefit of finding a home in a place like Microsoft is that you 67 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:56,000 can change jobs, recreate yourself and change organizations, but stay at the same place. 68 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:06,000 And I've really had a great journey moving from operations in the data center to the 69 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,600 critical environment. 70 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:15,320 So inside the colos to working with security and compliance where I am now. 71 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:21,780 And you are right, supplier governance monitoring and enforcement is an unwieldy name, but it 72 00:05:21,780 --> 00:05:24,960 accurately describes what we do. 73 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,560 And your business card, you actually unfold an eight and a half by 11 piece of paper to 74 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:34,480 have all of those words on it. 75 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:41,080 When I was asked when the team was renaming, if I had a preference, my only ask was, can 76 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,720 I say it easily? 77 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,680 I didn't win that. 78 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:46,680 No. 79 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:47,680 Microsoft won. 80 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:48,680 Liz, zero. 81 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:57,000 All right, so as you know, I asked my guests the four same questions to start off. 82 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,040 So if you're ready, we'll get into those. 83 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,160 I'm ready, Kathy. 84 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:02,160 Thank you. 85 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:03,160 All right. 86 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,360 So I know what you didn't want to do when you grew up, which was do what you do now 87 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,760 is what you said, but what was the first thing you remember wanting to do when you grow up? 88 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,720 I love being outside and I love animals. 89 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:23,400 And the career path that called me as a young person was being a marine biologist. 90 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,120 You know what? 91 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:28,120 It's so funny. 92 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:38,040 So I think most kids go through a phase of either wanting to be an astronaut, a veterinarian, 93 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,440 or a marine biologist. 94 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,560 And maybe for the real, like, I'm going to make a million dollars, a lawyer. 95 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:52,320 But like, marine biologists, believe it or not, is the most common thing I hear. 96 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:53,320 I'm not surprised. 97 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,120 I mean, it's an unexplored territory. 98 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:02,920 You get the science part of it, but you also get the nature part of it. 99 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:08,840 And in youthful dreams, you think you're going to spend your time on a boat in the ocean. 100 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:13,800 It's not actually the reality of marine biologists, but that's what you think it is. 101 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:14,800 Yes. 102 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,880 You're not playing with dolphins, petting whales. 103 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:17,880 No, no. 104 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,920 You spend your life looking at things like Daphnia and sea fleas to see the impact on 105 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:24,920 algae. 106 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:25,920 Yeah. 107 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,080 It's a lot of math and statistics. 108 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,080 Interesting. 109 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Two of my best work colleagues are marine biologists. 110 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,880 So you live vicariously through them. 111 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:38,880 Yeah. 112 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:46,840 But it makes a lot of sense that somebody with that rich data analytics and process 113 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,040 mind would end up at Microsoft. 114 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,040 Yeah. 115 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:51,040 Absolutely. 116 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,040 Absolutely. 117 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,160 So who was the first big influencer that you remember on your life? 118 00:07:55,160 --> 00:08:01,760 Well, this is going to sound so cheesy, but my dad. 119 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:11,000 Bit or bad, I was raised as a project manager because my father is a business leader or 120 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,800 I guess was a business leader. 121 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,280 He's retired now. 122 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,480 He came up through semiconductors. 123 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:28,640 So he really led by example and through his parenting, how to think things through, optimize, 124 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:29,640 make it more efficient. 125 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:30,640 How do you make it better? 126 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,960 How do you take your lessons learned and not repeat them in the future? 127 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:43,520 And I feel grateful that he was both a business mentor and a friend and my dad. 128 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:44,520 Nice. 129 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:45,520 Nice. 130 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,320 There was no way you weren't going to end up in a technology world. 131 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:49,840 Your father was in semiconductors. 132 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,680 Your neighbor was founder of MS. 133 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:52,680 Come on. 134 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:53,680 Yeah. 135 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:54,680 It was going to end up there. 136 00:08:54,680 --> 00:08:59,040 I did not see that coming. 137 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,440 And I think, oh, just a quick pause. 138 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:08,400 I remember one of those hard lessons that I got as a kid when I came home with like 139 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:14,520 a B on a report card and my brother got an A and my dad looked at me, sorry, my brother 140 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,200 got a C. So he underperformed. 141 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,600 I overperformed and my brother got accolades and my dad looked at me and said, you have 142 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:23,600 to work harder. 143 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,640 And I was like, that's not fair. 144 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:31,760 And right or wrong, he spoke the truth of our business environment in that women have 145 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:32,760 to do more. 146 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:38,800 They have to work harder and prove themselves more than maybe their male colleagues. 147 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,460 And I feel like that lesson has really stayed with me through the course of time. 148 00:09:43,460 --> 00:09:45,360 Such an important lesson. 149 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,760 And if in putting in context that as a woman, you're just going to have to work your ass 150 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,200 way harder than your brother will, then that's the lesson, right? 151 00:09:53,200 --> 00:10:00,560 And it's so sad to say that I'm a mom to a son and a daughter, as my listeners know. 152 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:05,560 And I have always said that to my kids. 153 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:08,360 So what song epitomizes your career path? 154 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:14,080 This is maybe the best question I've ever been asked, maybe in my life, Kathy. 155 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,120 It really is the thinker. 156 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:22,360 So I'm going to say not a song, but I'll go with a genre. 157 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:23,980 The bossa nova. 158 00:10:23,980 --> 00:10:27,480 It's spicy with a quick tempo. 159 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,480 I love it. 160 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:31,480 Love that. 161 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:32,480 All right. 162 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,100 You're going to have to, because I do the outro with your favorite song. 163 00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:40,120 So maybe you can send me your favorite bossa nova tune. 164 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,120 I will. 165 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,120 I will. 166 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,880 What are three words you'd use to describe you and or your career? 167 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:54,720 I'm going to leverage a book that probably everybody should read. 168 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:55,720 Maximize your strengths. 169 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,200 I think, no, actually, it's called Now Maximize Your Strengths. 170 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:04,520 And it really focuses on whatever you're good at. 171 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,080 Put time into that. 172 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:07,560 Put your energy into that. 173 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:11,280 Say if you're not good at math and you put a lot of time into it, you're not going to 174 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:12,440 get much better at it. 175 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:13,440 You might be okay. 176 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,440 But if you're great at something and you put that same amount of time into it, you'll be 177 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:18,440 fabulous. 178 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:26,160 I really loved how it informed some of my career decisions through my life. 179 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:32,920 And so I'm going to lean on the top three things that now know your strengths told me 180 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,360 I am. 181 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,240 I'm a maximizer. 182 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,340 I'm a connector. 183 00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:42,760 And I'm a problem solver. 184 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,360 We are the same person. 185 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,600 I love that. 186 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,560 Have you ever done Strengthfinder? 187 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:51,560 Yes. 188 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:56,520 I haven't done this one. 189 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:01,640 I'm going to have to go and do this one now. 190 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,560 It's really helpful. 191 00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:13,080 The maximizer, how I think of it is my own bar is set very high. 192 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:19,840 And having that high bar and always trying to achieve or do more or learn more and better 193 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:28,760 at yourself is I think demonstrated in being a lifelong learner and an adventurer and a 194 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:29,760 traveler. 195 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:30,760 Love it. 196 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:31,760 Yeah. 197 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:32,760 That's amazing. 198 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:41,720 So, you know, we talked about your career and your love of what you've been able to 199 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:48,640 achieve and the flexibility and the variety that you've had in working at Microsoft. 200 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,880 But what has your career been like? 201 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:56,160 I mean, I know as a woman coming up, starting my career in technology and the automotive 202 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:03,880 space, I was one of one in the entire organization for a long time. 203 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:10,000 So I imagine you being in that space as well, although much larger organization. 204 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,060 I'm curious to hear if, you know, I worked for a startup. 205 00:13:13,060 --> 00:13:19,000 Did you find the same thing that you were, you know, that one of these things just doesn't 206 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,000 belong? 207 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,000 Yeah. 208 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,840 I'm not going to sugarcoat it. 209 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:25,840 It was wrong. 210 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:34,480 It was really hard being when I started at Microsoft in the data centers, there was 1% 211 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,480 female employees. 212 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,640 Most of those female employees were in administrative roles. 213 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:52,000 And I had a lot of opportunities early in my career at Microsoft to inform my colleagues 214 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,880 that it was inappropriate for them to ask me to take meeting minutes just because I 215 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,040 was the only woman in the room. 216 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,600 And to know I was not going to go to the kitchen and get somebody coffee. 217 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,260 But if they were going to the kitchen, they could certainly bring back coffee for the 218 00:14:07,260 --> 00:14:08,260 rest of the room. 219 00:14:08,260 --> 00:14:15,080 It was a really interesting dynamic to be in a technology environment and have some 220 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:22,280 really old fashioned mindsets about the roles of women in an environment. 221 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:32,800 And the role I had was one of I was in a position where I had to say no a lot. 222 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,120 I was in a control function. 223 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:46,440 And I'll say that saying no to a male colleague in a senior role really takes quite a bit 224 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:47,440 of moxie. 225 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,960 Yep, it does. 226 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,100 So it was difficult. 227 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,280 It was a lot of work. 228 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:58,640 And when I say it was a lot of work when people ask why did I get my PMP or why did I get 229 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:05,080 my MBA in IT project management, it's because I needed to be able to advance my career 230 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:13,880 and as a woman, I didn't have some of the advantages that my male colleagues did where 231 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,640 they got promotions and they got interviews for jobs where they didn't meet the minimum 232 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,920 qualifications. 233 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:27,440 And so that lesson that my dad taught me all those years ago is that you have to try harder, 234 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,000 you have to work harder, you have to have more credentials. 235 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,000 That's right. 236 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,000 It's hard. 237 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:41,160 Yeah, and I so wish we in today being 2023 that we were further than we are. 238 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:42,160 Me too. 239 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:49,120 I think we've seen a significant shift, drastic shift actually, I'll say over the last four 240 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:50,120 years. 241 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:51,360 I can't even go back five years. 242 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,400 I got to say four years. 243 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:59,960 2019 I think is where I really started to see the difference. 244 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,920 And I think it's actually my kid's generation. 245 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,380 So my daughter is about to turn 22. 246 00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:14,760 She is starting her master's in biomedical physics. 247 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:23,040 And I think her generation is going to be one of the first to where it really is about 248 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,400 the person, not about the gender. 249 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,680 Yeah, well, gender is now a spectrum. 250 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:30,680 Right? 251 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,000 Which I think helps. 252 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,000 I think it does. 253 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,440 I think that dialogue has really helped. 254 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,520 The breadth now, it's not binary anymore, right? 255 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:50,280 So it's, yeah, I mean, I still see them leaning toward the traditional male looking side of 256 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:51,600 that spectrum. 257 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:52,600 Yeah. 258 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,800 But, you know, at least there's breadth, right? 259 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:56,800 There's variety. 260 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:57,800 Yeah. 261 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:08,600 And I think the noticeable difference I saw again about four or five years ago was our 262 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:16,680 amazing fearless leader who's fantastic, but he did put his foot in his mouth in a press 263 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,040 conference. 264 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,920 And it had a lot of ramifications that were actually super positive internally at Microsoft 265 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:33,760 of giving women and other minorities more support, more tools, more resources to help 266 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,280 close some of those gaps. 267 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:42,440 And of course, I'm sure the whole working environment felt the ripple effects of me 268 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:43,440 too. 269 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:44,440 It was very powerful. 270 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:45,440 Yeah. 271 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,440 Definitely. 272 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,640 Yes, I know of what you speak. 273 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,680 I remember that. 274 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:51,680 Yeah. 275 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,560 I'm curious. 276 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:59,240 So was there a defining moment, a decision action, something that really significantly 277 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:05,840 impacted the trajectory of your career and really anchored you in that analytical data 278 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,360 center kind of problem solving environment? 279 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:16,280 I feel like saying that there was one moment is probably not quite right. 280 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:17,280 It's like an onion. 281 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:26,120 It's not a good description where it was a number of small moments that I think this 282 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:31,160 is really important for women to be able to recognize those moments. 283 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:40,400 But it was a number of small moments along my career path that validated or confirmed. 284 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:41,520 I was good at it. 285 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:42,520 I got it. 286 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,680 I understood this. 287 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:53,760 And I remember a personal moment where I had gotten a puzzle for a gift. 288 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,100 And for not interesting reasons, that gift ended up still in my house. 289 00:18:58,100 --> 00:18:59,120 And I was looking at it. 290 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,960 And I remembered this voice from childhood. 291 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:02,960 You're not good at puzzles. 292 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,600 I was like, this is what I do for my job. 293 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,560 Who told me at some point in my life that I wasn't good at puzzles? 294 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:16,800 And somehow that stuck in my head because I'm going to tell you, I was 43 when I did 295 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:17,800 my first puzzle. 296 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:18,800 Wow. 297 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,640 And that's what I found out. 298 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,160 I'm really good at puzzles. 299 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:31,760 And I feel like capturing those moments add to the onion of, oh, I can do that. 300 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,520 Oh, I don't know what I can do. 301 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:45,040 And I think having that growth mindset that you may not get it now, you may not be good 302 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:54,520 at it now, but you can be good at it, all layer up to making baller decisions and buying 303 00:19:54,520 --> 00:20:00,120 for jobs that you don't think you're qualified for and showing up for interviews that you're 304 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,160 like, I don't know why these people are talking to me, but I'm going to sure have a great 305 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,160 conversation with them. 306 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:14,920 That confidence that you get from all of those many moments building up, I'd say that's what 307 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:15,920 got me. 308 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,440 That's what got me into Microsoft. 309 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:23,560 And that's what got me advancing in Microsoft because I just tried. 310 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,880 I just tried for things that maybe I didn't even think I could do. 311 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:33,720 And it's fun finding out that not only can you do them, but you can be successful at 312 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:34,720 it. 313 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:35,720 I love that analogy. 314 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,320 Onions don't tend to get a positive wrap. 315 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,360 It's always, you're always peeling stuff away from an onion, right? 316 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:49,600 But the thought of building up as a human, the layers and growing, which is exactly what 317 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,200 an onion does, right? 318 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:58,680 So that you become this massive complex layer of deliciousness is amazing. 319 00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,680 I love that. 320 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:00,680 I love that. 321 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:07,680 Well, and also surrounding yourself with people who can help recognize those moments for you. 322 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:12,760 It was when I finished my PMP, which I don't know about you, Kathy, but I took that test 323 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:13,760 twice. 324 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,240 I failed the first time. 325 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:16,240 Horrible. 326 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,360 Went back, studied, came back and took the test again and did just great. 327 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:21,600 Good for you. 328 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,520 And that's when my friend said, well, now that you've relearned how to study, you should 329 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,440 just go ahead and do your MBA. 330 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,360 And I was like, no, I don't have time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 331 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:33,360 But you know what I did. 332 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:34,400 And she was right. 333 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,760 I learned how to study. 334 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,040 And so then I could actually do my MBA while working full time. 335 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,680 Wow. 336 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:42,680 How long did it take you? 337 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:43,680 Three years. 338 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:44,680 Took me a long time. 339 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:51,140 Three years to do an MBA when you're working full time is not a long time. 340 00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:59,240 And I think in that I also chose smartly because I chose a university that allowed you to test 341 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:07,180 out that was 100% online and that my work would reimburse me for. 342 00:22:07,180 --> 00:22:09,680 So that's always a big win. 343 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:10,960 You're crazy not to do it. 344 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:11,960 Work's paying for it. 345 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:12,960 Right. 346 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,480 And if I had a work that would pay for it, I'd be back in school in a heartbeat. 347 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:25,160 And I think that's one of those other layers of the onion is take every single benefit 348 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,200 available to you. 349 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,680 Yeah, absolutely. 350 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,640 Don't leave money on the table. 351 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,160 So true. 352 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,880 And you know what's really interesting is, I mean, I've worked for some pretty big company, 353 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,560 well, IBM, some pretty big companies. 354 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:49,640 And the number of people who don't even know that there is an educational university program 355 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:55,560 or that you can go and work six months somewhere else in another office. 356 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,040 I mean, if that appeals to you, right? 357 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:04,600 One of my very best friends, I've known her since I was two, she works for Intel. 358 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,480 And Intel does a, they get sabbatical every seven years. 359 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,120 You need one after working at Intel for seven years. 360 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:15,080 It's kind of that, you get to that three year mark and you're like, oh, you know what? 361 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,320 It's only another little while until I get seven weeks off or eight weeks off. 362 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:19,320 Yeah. 363 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,360 It's a really good retention tool. 364 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:26,080 But they let you do job swaps and fill-ins. 365 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:31,080 And my gosh, what a great way to see the world, to go and live in a space. 366 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,080 Yep. 367 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:37,000 I'd be signing up for either Spain or Mexico and get my Spanish on. 368 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,680 And oh my God, it would be amazing. 369 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:40,680 Yeah. 370 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,960 And again, if you don't take advantage of the benefits, I mean, it's essentially just 371 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,320 leaving money on the table. 372 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,320 It's part of your payback. 373 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,320 Sure. 374 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,320 Yeah. 375 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,320 For sure. 376 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,480 So, you know, I usually at this point ask my guests about, you know, compromises and 377 00:23:54,480 --> 00:24:01,520 things they've made in their careers, but I really want to dig into this plastic-free. 378 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:07,360 I do my best, can always do more with regards to, you know, I'm that crazy lady who shows 379 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:12,520 up with the, you know, the bags for your produce that the people still don't know what to do 380 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,840 with and, you know, oh, well, you know, I don't know how much to take off. 381 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:17,840 It's like, it's okay. 382 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,720 I will pay the 30 grams worth of whatever it is, right? 383 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,080 And we have more grocery bags. 384 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,240 My husband thinks I'm going to do a second career in setting up a shop because we have 385 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,520 so many. 386 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:36,560 But tell me about, you know, that aha moment when you're out enjoying a lovely snorkel 387 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:42,480 and beautiful sea and sun was shining and, you know, all you could think about is, oh 388 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,760 my God, look at what's happening to our oceans. 389 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:46,760 Yeah. 390 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:54,120 Well, first of all, thank you for everything that you do with regards to being plastic-free 391 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,080 because every little step counts. 392 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:05,840 And I thought I was pretty focused on being a good steward of our earth and being environmental 393 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,200 and trying to make conscious decisions. 394 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:16,240 But on that trip, and you described it well, I was out in the water. 395 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,000 I thought I got hit by a jellyfish. 396 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:23,680 So I, you know, jumped back and it was a plastic bag and I was like, oh, that's disgusting. 397 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,080 So I grabbed it and just kept on snorkeling away. 398 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:34,240 My friends went back to the boat and I putzed around in the water a bit more and just didn't 399 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:42,440 realize until I got back on the boat that I filled up the bag with other bits of plastic. 400 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:49,160 On that same trip, like most snorkel trips do, they take you to a beach after your snorkeling 401 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,760 so they can sell you drinks. 402 00:25:51,760 --> 00:26:04,080 And I was walking up and down the beach and picked up maybe 25, 30 water bottle caps and 403 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,960 toothpaste caps. 404 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:12,840 And I'm going to say that boat ride back to land in our hotel was one of the longest I've 405 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,400 ever had because I just kept on thinking, what can I do? 406 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,040 What can I do? 407 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:28,040 And I decided to make the big decision to try and go plastic free, which is not an easy 408 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,040 thing to do. 409 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,760 I thought it was going to be super easy. 410 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:40,120 I did not know that still five years into it, I'd be struggling to reduce some of the 411 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:44,760 plastic in our personal supply chain. 412 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:55,520 And I think that's a big key is so many companies say we have recycled plastic in our clothes 413 00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:04,040 or this is made environmentally sound and then they ship it in a plastic bag, in a plastic 414 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,120 bag with a plastic price tag on it. 415 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:12,200 So what are you really getting out of that environmentally sound supply chain? 416 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:20,320 So I really started making decisions about is the full supply chain as environmentally 417 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,720 sound as possible? 418 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:31,360 This thing is my biggest compromise and that I don't buy a lot of new clothes because what 419 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:37,440 companies really fulfill that standard is Prana. 420 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,760 They do a great job of having a full supply chain that's plastic free. 421 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:48,640 But so where I started, I'll back up. 422 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:54,240 The first thing I did was I changed my toothpaste and I say that's the first thing that anybody 423 00:27:54,240 --> 00:28:02,600 can do to make a really significant impact because the cap, the tube, the box and the 424 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:09,200 plastic around the toothpaste box are not recyclable or compostable. 425 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:15,680 And I've been using not as an advertisement, but they're great bite toothpaste bits. 426 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:23,920 And this company was started by an amazing woman, world traveler who was profoundly impacted 427 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:29,780 by the amount of toothpaste caps that she found on the beach and scuba diving. 428 00:28:29,780 --> 00:28:37,500 And so she started this company pressing little bits in her living room and then went to mass 429 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:42,200 production and now is I think a thriving company. 430 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,840 But she just leveraged technology that was already out there. 431 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:52,080 If you look at folks in Mexico, they've been using toothpaste powder for centuries. 432 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:59,520 And so that's when I decided that part of my plastic free journey had to be advocacy 433 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,240 because bite toothpaste bits doesn't have a big advertising budget, but I certainly 434 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:10,640 can tell every single person I know. 435 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:17,720 Because as the world is more interested in living sustainably have become a little bit 436 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:26,600 easier with say bamboo reusable makeup removers that you can get on Amazon or bamboo toothbrushes 437 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,840 that are compostable. 438 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:36,880 But some of those bigger decisions that came with looking at my food, looking at what I 439 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,080 buy. 440 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,800 Think about your toilet paper that you get like your Charmin that's in a plastic bag 441 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,280 and each thing is in plastic. 442 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:51,300 There's a bunch of companies now that provide fully plastic free and sustainable toilet 443 00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:57,240 paper like who gives a crap and cloud paper. 444 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,440 And then it came down to like food. 445 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,240 So I do grow a lot of my own food. 446 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:12,640 Now I get my bulk dried beans and make my refried beans from scratch. 447 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,640 But I eat a lot of produce. 448 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:20,520 And so one of those bigger life changes was I got myself a lettuce grow, which is a 449 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,520 Oh, those are amazing. 450 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:23,520 Yeah. 451 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:24,520 Yeah. 452 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:30,840 Because I was I was using a plastic not recyclable clamshell, like two or three of those a week 453 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,400 of lettuce. 454 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:39,400 And so I really feel like making some of those changes. 455 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:40,400 It's not the easiest. 456 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,660 It's not the most convenient. 457 00:30:42,660 --> 00:30:51,160 When I installed my lettuce grow, I had to rehome my beautiful 10 foot fiddlehead big. 458 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,360 I know it was really, really emotionally traumatic to me. 459 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,360 I feel your pain is like giving away. 460 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,360 It was hard. 461 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:01,360 It was hard. 462 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:08,320 And but on the other side of it, I've had a lettuce grow for a year and a half. 463 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:17,280 And I have basil, cilantro, chives, Swiss chard, kale, and a variety of lettuce just 464 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,600 waiting for me to go make lunch today. 465 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:27,840 And so I think I think that everybody can make a difference with little and small changes. 466 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:34,400 But the important thing is just starting to recognize what you buy. 467 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:35,800 It's so difficult. 468 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,760 And my sister is amazing at this. 469 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:46,720 She a little sometimes maybe a little too vocal because you can be an advocate, but 470 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:52,200 you need to also be respectful of the fact that not everybody is there yet. 471 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,200 Right. 472 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:54,320 She wants everybody there yesterday. 473 00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:00,840 And God bless her for it because she is, you know, a powerhouse packed into a five foot 474 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,280 bundle of energy. 475 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,280 She's just amazing. 476 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,760 But it is it's it's a lot of work. 477 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:11,080 It's not and it's unfortunate that it's it's not frictionless. 478 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,760 No, you can't just decide today that that's it. 479 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:15,760 No more plastic. 480 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:16,760 Yeah. 481 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,600 Because well, I guess you can. 482 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,840 But there's serious implications. 483 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:33,800 It's it's you know, when you buy your anvil and it's wrapped in plastic, you know, it's 484 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,040 that I guess the word I use is insidious. 485 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,040 It's yes. 486 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,460 I mean, it's truly everywhere. 487 00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:44,640 So I'm really lucky in the Pacific Northwest in Seattle, we have a company called Gridwell, 488 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:51,400 which was started by a father son trying to dispose of batteries appropriately. 489 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:57,840 And so they take a number of things, including plastic film, which is the hardest to eliminate 490 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,360 from your supply chain. 491 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:06,800 And they found a way to recycle a bunch of stuff that the city doesn't recycle. 492 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:14,960 But I think that the champion in the advocacy, your sister in law, she she's she's really 493 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,120 spot on and that we should all be there yesterday. 494 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,640 And part of it needs to come from our government. 495 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:22,640 Yes. 496 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,360 In Seattle, we're so lucky. 497 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:30,320 We're a bunch of like minded recycling hippies, I guess. 498 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:37,280 You go to Arizona and I went down there for a couple of days and I was overwhelmed by 499 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:43,240 the amount of plastic that I had to consume in that place. 500 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:44,240 Yeah. 501 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:51,280 And you know, it was it's it's time to have our federal government step up and make some 502 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:56,160 really good decisions about recycling on a national level. 503 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:07,120 I think the the Mexican government, the previous president decided that straws were damaging 504 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,120 and hurting their turtles. 505 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:15,400 And he made the decision that the entire country would pivot to recyclable and compostable 506 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,400 straws. 507 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:17,400 And it happened. 508 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,880 I mean, if Mexico can do it, we should be able to do it too. 509 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,200 Yeah, Canada is there, too. 510 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,800 At least Ontario with you can't get a plastic bag anymore. 511 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:29,800 Period. 512 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,600 Like full stop. 513 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,200 And the whole you know, the the the straws and things like that. 514 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:42,720 It's just, you know, I just think it's something that more people have to take seriously. 515 00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:44,840 This isn't something that we can wait on doing. 516 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,840 And so I thank you. 517 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,700 My children, thank you. 518 00:34:48,700 --> 00:34:50,640 Any future generations? 519 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,640 Because you know what? 520 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:59,740 I'm coming out of this conversation reinvigorated, reinspired to, you know, and summer is easier 521 00:34:59,740 --> 00:35:02,260 because I do my shopping at Farmer's Market and whatnot. 522 00:35:02,260 --> 00:35:07,260 So everything is just out and there's no no plastic involved. 523 00:35:07,260 --> 00:35:12,840 But I'm I'm I'm going to go back to the yeah, no, it doesn't matter that the loose limes 524 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,020 are, you know, 20 percent more expensive. 525 00:35:16,020 --> 00:35:17,320 They're not in a plastic bag. 526 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,600 That's what I'm going to do. 527 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,640 You know, try and shopping more locally so that, you know, the plastic isn't needed to 528 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:27,400 ship it from, you know, South America or Africa or whatever. 529 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:34,160 Find those really good subscription companies. 530 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:41,800 You know, our our meat and our fish wrapped in plastic on a styrofoam tray in most stores. 531 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:50,280 And so the Alaskan Fish Company and Butcher Box are really good options where you get 532 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:58,440 great, sustainable, usually organic, usually free ranging. 533 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:04,560 And in the kind of plastic that, say, my Ridwell subscription will take care of. 534 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:10,600 And so it's both leveraging the farmers market and looking for those plastic free options 535 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,640 and then looking for solutions that might not be plastic free but are closer and have 536 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:16,640 less waste. 537 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:17,640 Exactly. 538 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,560 And it doesn't have to be all or nothing, every little bit helps. 539 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,760 And I think that's something that a lot of people use as a reason slash excuse. 540 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:26,760 Yeah. 541 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:27,760 Right. 542 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,300 And I think every little bit, anything you can do is absolutely wonderful. 543 00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:36,760 So this has Liz, I have just enjoyed this conversation so much. 544 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,720 It's been fantastic. 545 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:45,240 Please send me a list of links to your favorite plastic free products and companies and I 546 00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:52,680 will include those in the post that goes along with this conversation. 547 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:53,680 This has just been amazing. 548 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:59,320 You know, I always, last question, one piece of advice that you'd like to share with our 549 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,760 audience, particularly maybe the women in our audience. 550 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,040 I'm going to take advantage of the question and give two. 551 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,200 Okay. 552 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,520 The first is your connections are really important. 553 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,200 The people in your life, personal and professional. 554 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:19,280 Make sure that you're taking the time to nurture them. 555 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:25,040 Be a gardener to your friendships and your relationships because those are the community 556 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,360 and networks that support you when you're down. 557 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:37,040 It's the network that provides you opportunities that you might not be aware of. 558 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,320 And it's also the place that celebrates you when you succeed. 559 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:47,920 It's really important to keep the connections in your life going. 560 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:56,520 And I guess the second piece is I'm a yoga practitioner and they have a saying, you can't 561 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,440 serve from an empty vessel. 562 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:04,600 And so if you don't take care of yourself, if you're not drinking enough water, if you're 563 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:10,240 not exercising, if you're not eating well, you can't give back to your community, to 564 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:13,160 your family, to your friends, to your job. 565 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:20,120 And I think that taking care of yourself is underrated in our society, especially for 566 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,120 women. 567 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:27,800 It seems like we're supposed to compromise our sleep, our health and our welfare so we 568 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,160 can take care of the family or get a job done. 569 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,240 And I'd just like to give a shout out that you got to take care of yourself so that you 570 00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:37,480 can take care of others. 571 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:43,200 Much sage advice, logic that we need to be reminded of periodically. 572 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,320 So go and make yourself that really healthy salad with maybe a little side of french fries 573 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,120 because french fries and ice cream should be their own food group in my opinion. 574 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,560 Go for a walk and you know what? 575 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,360 There are people there to help if you need help, whether that's somebody to sit next 576 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,160 to or somebody to scream at. 577 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,160 Just absolutely. 578 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,920 So wonderful advice. 579 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,640 Liz, this has been amazing. 580 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,400 Thank you. 581 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,520 To my audience, thank you for listening to Uncharted Journeys with me, your host, Cathy 582 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:15,520 McKnight. 583 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:21,200 I hope you've enjoyed my conversation with Liz and hearing about how persistence and 584 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,880 commitment can take you to all of the places that you want to go in your life, whether 585 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,480 it's personal or professional. 586 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,040 And if you are keen to hear more amazing stories from amazing women, then you can head over 587 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,220 to unchartedjourneys.net and listen to some of the other episodes. 588 00:39:35,220 --> 00:39:39,400 You can also sign up to our email list and definitely please check out the links in this 589 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:40,540 episode. 590 00:39:40,540 --> 00:39:44,720 There will be a plethora of them to help you lead a more plastic-free life. 591 00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:46,040 So thank you again for listening. 592 00:39:46,040 --> 00:40:14,200 See you next time and until then, enjoy the journey.